Viewing entries posted in April 2011

Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by Mike Fleming <mike-at-tauzero.co.uk> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

swixie <swixie@gmail.com> said:

> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:18:01PM +0100, Mike Fleming wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, the BNP are pro FPTP. Preumably that means that anyone
> > opposed to all BNP policies will vote Yes to AV, and, indeed, make a
> > point of going out and doing so.
>
> I've lost your line of thought there - do you suggest that if we have AV the BNP will do badly?

No, I'm saying that as the BNP are pro FPTP, everybody who states
themselves to be against everything that the BNP stands for and all
their policies should therefore go out and vote "Yes". I do find it
entertaining to innocently ask of those who say that they are opposed
to all BNP policy whether that means that they were in favour of
invading Iraq, as the BNP were opposed to said invasion.

This should not be taken as an endorsement of the BNP...

--
Smite the Unbeliever

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by swixie <swixie-at-gmail.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:18:01PM +0100, Mike Fleming wrote:

> How does it compare with
> http://www.labourlist.org/uploads/2182d850-1a75-d8a4-e58a-5ac0188352d3.jpg
>
>
> http://www.labourlist.org/bad-taste-and-complete-fiction-from-no2av

That's damn bad.

My favourite No campaign leaflet that arrived on my doorstep this week was the one that said AV would make politicians tell lies.

I wondered how the campaigners thought that was any different from now.

Among the objections to AV I read was that it was unfair because the person who got the most votes - in the first round - might not "win". I thought the winners were supposed to be the electorate and that among the reasons for changing the system is the sense that under the present system large parts of the electorate lose, as large as a majority in some constituencies - "safe seats" where a majority of a constituency's electors may be effectively disenfranchised.

> Incidentally, the BNP are pro FPTP. Preumably that means that anyone
> opposed to all BNP policies will vote Yes to AV, and, indeed, make a
> point of going out and doing so.

I've lost your line of thought there - do you suggest that if we have AV the BNP will do badly?

Stuart
--
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by Neil The~Hippy <hippyweb-at-btinternet.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

On 30/04/11 23:23, Mike Fleming wrote:

> Incidentally, this is why I'm voting "Yes". AV is by no means the best
> system, but it's the best we're being offered, and also offers the
> chance that we could move on to a real voting system that reflects how
> people really feel. We'll never see that chance in our lifetime if
> thye country votes "No".
>
FWIW I feel that I agree with these statments

--
Neil The~Hippy http://www.hippyweb.me.uk

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by Mike Fleming <mike-at-tauzero.co.uk> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

swixie <swixie@gmail.com> said:

> If I vote "no" and everyone else does, even the ones who're in favour of AV, then the system will not change and I do believe that if the outcome is "no" then we will not be asked again, at least not in my lifetime.
> If AV isn't so good as other forms of PR then we can modify AV when it is in place and working.

Incidentally, this is why I'm voting "Yes". AV is by no means the best
system, but it's the best we're being offered, and also offers the
chance that we could move on to a real voting system that reflects how
people really feel. We'll never see that chance in our lifetime if
thye country votes "No".

--
Smite the Unbeliever

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by Mike Fleming <mike-at-tauzero.co.uk> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

swixie <swixie@gmail.com> said:

> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 06:02:26PM +0100, Chris Pollard wrote:
> > On 30 April 2011 14:18, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
> > > And the clincher:
> > >
> > > http://i.imgur.com/Zb9tJ.png
> >
> > That's all very well same as three cats and a dog.
> > What if it's four completely different things.
> > e.g. Beer, Coffee, Wine, Lemonade.
>
> My thoughts exactly. It's a piss-poor campaign poster.

How does it compare with
http://www.labourlist.org/uploads/2182d850-1a75-d8a4-e58a-5ac0188352d3.jpg


http://www.labourlist.org/bad-taste-and-complete-fiction-from-no2av


Incidentally, the BNP are pro FPTP. Preumably that means that anyone
opposed to all BNP policies will vote Yes to AV, and, indeed, make a
point of going out and doing so.

--
Smite the Unbeliever

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Boring ...

Posted by ROGER COLLIER <roger.collier-at-oracle.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

.. But reliable - the Volvo V50 went back today after 3 years and 70000
miles.
It didn't smell too bad so that's a recommendation for VAX for cleaning
vomit out of upholstery, and I never found the hamster ...

I don't think they do the 2l 135bhp diesel any more but it was a nice
engine,
which could do 50-odd mpg over a tankful if you drive like a cripple.

So if you're in the market for a nearly new Volvo, don't get a red one
from an auction in the next few weeks.

Roger.

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Tomorrow/Yfory

Posted by Neil The~Hippy <hippyweb-at-btinternet.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

Sing a song...
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topicT6.0;wap2

--
Neil The~Hippy http://www.hippyweb.me.uk

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Old DiscussionRe: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by Neil The~Hippy <hippyweb-at-btinternet.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

On 30/04/11 18:30, John K. Bilsbury wrote:

> iklery tuck,

Isn't Ilkley Moor relevant?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMaB0cqwcvI



--
Neil The~Hippy http://www.hippyweb.me.uk

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by fizzy <fizzyorange-at-gmail.com> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

On 30 April 2011 18:30, John K. Bilsbury <stockport.ixie@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Chris:
>> > http://i.imgur.com/Zb9tJ.png
>> That's all very well same as three cats and a dog.
>> What if it's four completely different things.
>> e.g. Beer, Coffee, Wine, Lemonade.
>
> If there is only one candidate you can bring yourself to endorse then, if I understand correctly, you can just vote for them. I would be dead against AV if I had to put a number against every candidate because I couldn't ever countenance even the remotest chance of my vote helping to elect a BNP, NF, UKIP or MUFC candidate.
> As it is, I've already voted "Yes" via my postal ballot.
As have I. I was discussing it with Sue afterwards and have had cause
to doubt my decision for many of the reasons outlined here. However
as I think that those who are opposed to PR in any form would take a
NO vote as a vote /for/ FPTP I feel I must vote for a change.

As you say, you are not obliged to put preferences against those you
really don't want.

I have been a counting agent for a number of elections at various
levels (as well as administering AV and STV polls while a student) and
with the UK official elections all that is necessary is that the
elector has indicated a clear preference. Each of the candidates
agents are asked to accept that a clear preference has been shown
before the vote is allowed, but believe me putting a line through all
the candidates bar one has been sufficient for the vote to be counted.

Personally, I think we should have a re-open nominations option too.

--
fizzy

The Edge ...
there is no honest way to explain it because the only people
who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Dr Hunter S Thompson - Hell's Angels, 1965

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Re: AV - yea or nay?

Posted by John Greystrong <ixion-at-greystrong.org> on 30 April 2011 | 0 Comments

On 30/04/2011 12:31, H. B. Dunsterville wrote:
> Dear Ixion,
>
> I have no idea how to vote on this referendum. Yes or no to AV?
>
> Please don't let this descend into mud-slinging, I'm genuinely interested in
> what folks have to say. I need to make up my mind!

I'm voting for which voting system I think is better. I'm not going to
concern myself with how it affects Clegg, Cameron, the man in the moon
etc. And better is not the same as best.

John

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